Supposed son of Sir John de Eure, born c1341
Married Isabel de Clifford c1361?
Children
Ralph born c1366
Died 1393
1 A number of sources postulate a Sir John de Eure III (1341-1393), marrying Isabel de Clifford (b1341), father of Ralph de Eure, born c1366 rather than the normally accepted c1350
These sources appear to be based upon the following passage in The direct pedigree of the barons Eure of Witton - John Hubbersty Mathews 1880:-
... Sir John de
Eure, the second son, suc-
ceeded.
This sturdy knight married 35th Edward. (1361),
Isabella, daughter of Robert Lord Clifford. The star of
Eure was still in the ascendant, and he ranked amongst
the captains and warriors of that splendid period of our
history. He died holding the important offices of Con-
stable of Dover Castle, and Lord Steward of the King's
household February 3 1393 (16th Richard II).
However, from 1226 the office of Constable of Dover Castle was combined with that of Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports. Sir John Devereux, second Baron Devereux was the Lord Warden from 1388 to 1393 - and also Steward of the King's Household. It appears that the similarity of names has lead to confusion, and possibly led to the 1393 death date.
Ralph de Eure was appointed a Commissioner for the subsidy of 1371 - scarcely likely if he was born in 1366!
There may be further confusion with Ralph de Eure's elder brother Robert, born c1340, who married an Isabel, daughter and co-heir of Roger de Merley.
John Hubbersty Mathews quotes no sources for his pedigree (other than himself). The paragraph is apparently supported by the Eure Pedigree on page 607 in "The Visitation of Yorkshire, Made in the Years 1584/5, By Robert Glover Somerset Herald ; to Which is Added the Subsequent Visitation Made in 1612, By Richard St. George, Norray King of Arms with Several Additional Pedigrees by Joseph (ed.) Robert Glover Foster (Hardcover - 1875) " but this pedigree was drawn up by Joseph Foster himself and, as he says in page ix of his foreword, is taken from J.H. Mathews.
Sir John de Eure died in March 1365/6 and was suceeded by his son Robert. Robert died before 21st May 1370 (the date of his Inquisition post mortem) and was succeeded by his brother Ralph.
2 The above does not mean that a Sir John de Eure did not exist and marry Isabella de Clifford, merely that these were not the parents of Sir Ralph de Eure and that Sir John de Eure was not the Constable of Dover dying in 1393.
3 I can find no original source for the Eure/Clifford marriage except a reference to page 54 of "The extinct and dormant peerages of the northern counties of England" Clay. This is probably based on the information from Mathews and Foster.
The wording in #1 above occurs almost identically in "The Register Booke of Ingleby iuxta Grenhow" (JOHN BLACKBURNE, Cross & Jackman, "The Canterbury Press," 6, High Street. 1889. ) Eure pedigree The Source appears to be Foster's pedigree - which is quoted in the Introduction to the Ingleby Registers.
4 It is tempting to dismiss this whole interpolation as fiction but it is unlikely that J.H. Mathews had no source for the Eure / Clifford marriage in 1361. Until this is discovered there is a mystery to be solved but it can be stated with some confidence that any such John de Eure was not the heir of John de Eure. (Robert de Eure succeeding from John De Eure 1367. Succeeded by Ralph de Eure 1369/70.
5 http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/1999-01/0917764155
This is what I have on the Clifford family. I may
have skipped a
generation. "Ancestral Roots ..." indicates that Isabella who married
Sir
John Eure was the dau. of Robert, 1st Lord, but "Magna Charta Surities"
states that she was the dau. of Robert, 3rd Lord. The dates would fit
with
the latter. What do you think?
_________1st GENERATION________________
Robert de Clifford, 1st Lord Clifford by writ, slain at the battle of
Bannockburn 1314; married 1295 Maud de Clare, d. 1326/7, 2nd dau. of
Thomas
de Clare, and had issue:
a. Roger, 2nd Lord Clifford, d. unm.
b. Robert, 3rd Lord Clifford
c. John
d. Idonea, d. 24 Aug. 1365; mar. Henry Percy, 2nd Lord Percy
e. Margaret, d. 8 Aug. 1382; mar. Piers de Mauley
_________2nd GENERATION________________
Robert de Clifford, 3rd Lord Clifford, succeeded his brother Roger, b. 5
Nov. 1305, d. 20 may 1344; mar. 1328 Isabel de Berkely, d. 25 July 1362,
dau. of Maurice de Berkely and Eve la Zouch. Issue:
a. Robert, 4th Lord Clifford, d.s.p. ca. 1350
b. Roger, 5th Lord Clifford
c. Sir Thomas of Cockermouth
d. possibly Sir Lewis (said by some to be the son of Roger, 5th Lord)
e. Isabella; mar. 1361 Sir John Eure, d. 1393/4
_________3rd GENERATION_________________
Roger de Clifford, 5th Lord Clifford, succeeded his brother Robert, b.
10
July 1333, died 13 July 1389; mar. Maud de Beauchamp, d. 1402/3, dau. of
Thomas de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, and his wife Catherine de
Mortimore.
Issue:
a. Thomas, 6th Lord Clifford
b. Sir William
c. Katherine, d. 23 Apr. 1413; mar. Ralph de Greystock, 5th Lord
Greystock
d. ? Margaret; mar. Sir John Melton
e. Mary; mar. Sir Philip Wentworth
f. Phillipa; mar. William Ferrers of Luton, Bedfordshire